I don't know much, but the latest findings indicate T.Rex was more suited to listening into it's front arc, which is the exact opposite of what you'll expect in a scavenger. Scavengers have 360 non stero sound systems to lacate a kill. It appears that T.Rex had frontal stero-sound. Something exclusive to predatory animals.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

I wonder, what is this theory going around that T.rex had even better vision as his visual lobes were bigger than Troodon? Is this true? Some paleontologist said he had the vision equal or better than that of the American Golden Eagle. A far cry from the half-blind T.rex in Jurassic Park that in real life would have made mince meat of Lex, Grant and Tim.

Anyway, I was playing Red Alert 2. I am so sorry I could not save your Statue of Libery, it got blown up! But what do I care...I am not American.
from Commander Shian, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

The next old blood is out!
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Stress marks are actually signs of use on a claw. Cats have fast growing claws and have to scratch in order to trim them. (I hope they don't use your legs as a scratching post) Raptors on the other hand actually had bones for claws, meaning that stress marks will be easy to find as bone heals badly. As for your cat, you are unlikely to find stress marks as his nails are made of keritin.

Anyway, Cats are cool. It's too bad alot of "siao kao" people in Singapore like to throw them off apartment blocks to see if they:
1. can land on their feet
2. really have nine lives.

Right DW, can you verify what I just said?
from Honkie Tong, age 12, Singapore, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Actually, the Tyrannosaurs filled the big cat's ecological niche. Don't dorget that prey in that time was huge. And Tyrannosaurus Rex was the top predator, as was the lion. The raptors might have served a lower ecological niche. Big cat niches are a bit too high up on the food chain.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

The next old blood is coming out, phew, I really have to stop writing until so late.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

I don't know about anyone else, and this is pure speculation, but I'm starting to draw parallels between raptors and big cats. The smaller raptors seem to be very alike to big cats. Of course, I may be wrong. I am basing all this on the similar ecological niches both groups occupy, namely medium sized predators. Buuuuuuuut, this is just my opinion and may not be correct.

A fatal exception has occured in Internet Explorer. Bill Gates is annoyed at your continued speculation on extinct creatures. Bill Gates has already odered the terminaton of your hotmail account. Further speculation will result in the sending of a virus that will delete windows. You will then be able to spend a lot of time studying an extinct entity: MS-DOS. Our beloved leader has already concocted a plan to make further millions by creating a theme park that will draw visitors with examples of prehistoric items: DOSosaurus Park. - The Guy Monitoring You At The Evil Microsoft Corporation
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

That's, of course if you wanted to use the eq system. Chickens have a amazingly high eq for a bird their size. To find evidence of pack behaviour, you will have to find fossil trackways that prove this. Bones are not enough. But then again, pack behaviour is under the "speculated" section of raptor behaviour. Somehow, people take it to be true without doubt.

Ask any expert. I was surprised when my lecturer told me that the raptors were actually not swift. Their leg bone proportions seemed built less for speed and more for agility. The new theory is that if you put Tyrannosaurus in a race with a Velociraptor, the Tyrannosaurus would win. The speed estimates of the raptors are seriously falling with passing time.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

You are right Brad, the raptors know this too, that's why whenever they lose in Dino Warz, they will call in a couple of hundred raptors to kill Sue. But it's a good thing Tinker knows how to use a machine gun.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

The Tenontosaurus was killed by a group of Deinonychus. Notice the technicallly here is "group" and not pack. It's impossible to prove pack behaviour at all. Prehaps Deinonychus would have exibited the behaviour of a mean chicken. I am not clear on what killed the dead Deinonychus in the area, but we suspect the Tenontosaurus did it.

It's a different matter for the other raptors however, they are always found alone. Even the Velociraptor that died in a fight with a a Protoceratops showed no sign of predation. I suspect that group or pack behaviour would be only observed in Deinonychus and no other raptors.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

The Tenontosaurus was killed by a group of Deinonychus. Notice the technicallly here is "group" and not pack. It's impossible to prove pack behaviour at all. Prehaps Deinonychus would have exibited the behaviour of a mean chicken. I am not clear on what killed the dead Deinonychus in the area, but we suspect the Tenontosaurus did it.

It's a different matter for the other raptors however, they are always found alone. Even the Velociraptor that died in a fight with a a Protoceratops showed no sign of predation. I suspect that group or pack behaviour would be only observed in Deinonychus and no other raptors.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

The thing about T.rex was that it was very hard to kill. Wounds that would have finished off other animals like a hole in the braincase, a broken neck, a fractured skull, broken ribs, broken femur would barely slow the T.rex. T.rex was built like a tank. Anyway, T.rex also moved around in social groups, it'll take the a lot of Velociraptors to take tham all out, not worth the effort. T.rex, wasn't a lumbering buffon either, it'll be hard for the Velociraptors to swarm him. As your cat uses here claws, they will grow to make up for the wear. The raptors didn't seem to have this feature though, which is pretty stupid if you relyed on your claw to attack. Of course, they might not have used their claws in the first place.

Anyway, what's all this talk about smart raptors? I seriously doubt brain size in ratio to body weight counts. If eq was really accurate, we could say that the adverage dolphin was smarter than us. It's likely that T.rex was about as smart as any other raptor.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Heck, we might as well say that 100,000,000 bulldog ants could kill a T.Rex, of course under normal situtations, a raptor pack stands no chance.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Ahhh, no Mr.Rogers for a day. All's quiet on the western front.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Eudibamus is a remarkable creature! Not only was it the first bipedal running animal, but it also somehow managed to be a lizard, a synapsid and a bolosaurid all at the same time! What a truly amazing find.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 20, 2000

Don't be to hard on Paul. Let's try to keep a good reputation and have as many people as we can.

Since pretty much enough of anything can kill you, then in theory a pack of Velociraptors could kill T. rex--you'd probably just need a lot of them. For istance, a group of 20,000 Velociraptors would weigh about 30 tons and could seriously damage a T. rex simply by all leaping on it at once. Of course, most of the Velociraptors would also be killed. But Velociraptor didn't just sit on its prey, and even 40-50 determined Velociraptors on the neck of a rex could do a lot of damage. If the Velociraptors climbed up the back of the T. rex and came around under the jaw, they couldn't be attacked as easily. Of course, I doubt it would be worth the effort. There were plenty of hypsilophodonts, miniature ceratopsians, carrion, eggs, lizards and other tasty things in the Cretaceous. Theropods wouldn't eat each other on a regualr basis if easier food was availible.

What are stress marks on claws? I'll try to identify them on my sister's cat, he uses his a fair bit.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 20, 2000

Hey, nice joke! Anyway, I have posted a Stegosaurus picture. Hoped you like it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Ok, let's see. Please provide me with the required information, all you paleontologists out there.

Just before I begin I want to make something known. The younger members of this forum may be refering to Deinonychus as Velociraptor. Please make a note of this before you rebuke them! They got this from watcthing JP! Blame Crichton! Not them!

Anyway, I want to ask this. What proof is there that the order dromeosauridae pack hunted or did not? Was it the entire order that practiced this behaviour or only a select species? Levine has provided information that Velociraptor proberbly had the IQ of a chicken, but is this true of the entire order or only Velociraptor? Can it be conjectured that Deinonychus practised a life-style similar to that of modern lions, or at least that of modern big cats, based on the information Dr. Holtz provided some time ago that he had found in his work that raptors had a body style similar to feline cats (Something I wrote of in this column. Note: Lions are social animals that practice a form of pack behaviour. If you wish to verify that this is true, go to http://www.wildhearts.org/lion.html and click on Hunting and Diet.)?

Also, is there any detailed study on the Tenontosaurus death site? Were the bodies of the raptors crushed? Was the area the location of a volcanic ashfall, suffocating the dinosaurs? Can it be determined if the tenontosaurus was killed by the raptors or not? Have fossil trakways been found? And should we jump to conclusions based on little information? And can I be sure to get answer? Can I ever finish asking questions?

A fatal exception has occured in windows. Internet Explorer will be terminated
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; November 20, 2000

Once I finish Old Blood, I'll correct all the errors. You guys can then print it out and make a book! Please sell it for $50 dollars and give me $51, okay? Fair? Just kidding. Did you see Honkie's T.rex, it looks cool.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

One day, I heard that Mr.Rogers had been hospitalised and went to the hospital to visit him.

"Well" I said. " What happened?"

"I was walking down the street when I saw a Tyrannosaur." Mr.Rogers said. " I read in the bools that if you stare a Tyrannosaur in the eye, it would back down, so I stared at him."

"What happened?"

"He obviously didn't read the same book."

Three months later, Mr.Rogers was hospitalized again. I visited him then.

"What happened to you now?" I asked.

"Well," Mr.Rogers said. " I was walking down the street when I saw the Tyrannosaur again. I had been reading up on boxing so I gave him a left cross, and then a right cross."

"Then what happened?"

"Then came the red cross."
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

If Tyrannosaurs went to school, this would be probally a page in their textbook:

Lesson 12: Hunting Triceratops

Armed with three large horns and a sharp beak, these elephant-sized herbivores are quite capable of killing a large tyrannosaur. To hunt these dangerous animals successfully, we have evolved a barrage of weapons designed to maim the prey before it can maim the predator. Unlike the varied teeth of a mammalian predator, most of the teeth of a predatory dinosaur are all similar in shape. The size of bananas, these teeth are serrated on the front and back and are intended to slice through flesh, rather than hold it. This arrangement is almost universal with predatory dinosaurs, but our jaws are of a slightly different construction. Scoop-shaped fangs are arranged in an arc at the front of the mouth. These teeth function rather like a cookie cutter, allowing a us to scoop out large chunks of flesh from the belly or flank of a triceratops . Driven by roughly 3,000 pounds of force, a tyrannosaur's jaw severs muscles and crushes bone. The sudden depletion of blood, bone and muscle effectively cripples a T. horridus, allowed the tyrannosaur to eat at it leisure, with little or no threat to itself. This bleed-your-prey-to-death method is so efficient that it is the most commonly used form attack for almost all predatory dinosaurs. This has also arisen independently among several kinds of mammals, reptiles and fish. (see Gregory S. Paul's book, Predatory Dinosaurs of the World)(see also Jeff Poling's Tyrannosaur hunting techniques) Also, rather than chewing up-and-down like a mammal, a you can slide your jaws forward and back, shearing its teeth across the meat. This action, unlike any other method of mastication, pulverizes the bone and gristle and renders the meat easily digestible. For a hunter that uses it's mouth and not its hands to hunt, construction of the skull is crucial to survival. So remember, do NOT brush your teeth.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Really?

Testing

testing
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Hi,

I've modified the Dino Talk and Dino Fiction scripts so that you can start a new paragraph just by starting a new line with one or more spaces. I think is what some people were looking for.

You can still start a new paragraph by putting a blank line between paragraphs, if you prefer.

The indentation at the beginning of your paragraph won't actually appear in your text, so you don't have to worry about always using the same number of spaces.
from M.S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Anyway guys, I am doing a reconstruction of Stan's head. I hope you will like it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I have noticed that people have refered Tyrannosaurus Rex to a M1A2 Abrams main battle tank. I can't say they are wrong. Tyrannosaurus is probally as unbeatable as an M1A2. As in the words of a Velociraptor Alpha animal:

"At the start of the Dino Warz, I had fourty raptors. After three weeks of fighting other dinosaurs, I had thirty four left. But after twenty minutes of action against the Tyrannosaurus, I had none."

(Ps* This was a spoof of what a Iraqi tank commander said about the M1 Abrams)
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Woah, what;s wrong with the script? Anyway, we've had a few T.rex vs Raptors debates here Paul. And there has been a general agreement. The raptors probally didn't want to have anything to do with the T.rexes but if push came to shove, the raptors will be a pushover. While the raptors were built like a jeep. (mobility but little firepower), the T.rexes were built like an M-1A2 Abrams (mobility, firepower and armour).
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Paul, you obviously forgot that Tyrannosaurus hunted in a pack too. A pack of Velociraptors vs a pack of Tyrannosaurs. Sorry, but the Velociraptors will be transformed into gooey pulp in a matter of seconds. Read Dino Warz;-)
from Moyjo, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Actually Paul, Tyrannosaurus did meet Velociraptor. If you consider Tarbosaurus a valid species of Tyrannosaurus. Anyway, lets start with a little history.

Tyrannosaurus was discovered back in 1905. It was just about the ultimate expression for the land based carnivore until the Raptors came into the picture. Apparently, some paleontologist wanted make the raptors the ultimate expression of the land predator ever and made ridiculus claims. Even I got sucked into a lie like this. At first, many of us assumed that the raptors all hunted in packs and killed their prey by swarming it. (as suggested by you.)

However, this argument is starting to wear thin. New evidence not reveals that the raptors probally didn't or rarely used their claws as no stress injuries have been found. Even worse. Now we know that bigger Tyrannosaurs were actually better-built for speed than the raptors. Social behaviour has only been observed in one species of Raptor, but not Velociraptor. We suspect that Velociraptor did not hunt in a pack after all as there has not been a shred of evidence to prove that. THat idea was just a matter of assumpitions.

Did you feel threatened? Well, it's not really your fault. Many people are still living in the raptor era of myths. We now know that the raptors went into decline just as the smash-mouth hunting methods of the Tyrannosauids came online 80 million years ago. We now seriously suspect that Tyrannosaurus was still, the ultimate expression of the land based carnivore after all.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Son, you are still using the Eq system are you not? Well, I am afraid to tell you that is does not work very well. Anybody would expect us humans to have the highest Eq of all, but I'm afraid that is not true. Dolphins and some cats actually have a higher Eq then us. It's the make up of the brain, not the size of the brain that matters. Brain casts made of Velociraptor showed that they had extremely primitive brains. In fact, they had even less celebrial cortex, the area responsible for active thought that Tyrannosaurus. Tyrannosaurus was about as smart as a eagle or a large predatory bird. Velociraptor had the brian structure resembling a chicken.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Higly unlikely Paul boy. Velociraptors would probally scamper out of the way in the face of the T.rex. Tyrannosaurus was extremely quick and agile for its size. Anyway, what makes you think that Velociraptors hunted in a pack? One Tyrannosaur would probally kill its way through a Velociraptor in a jiffy. You obviously know very little about Velociraptors or any other kind of dinosaur for that matter.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

People, please, dont use question marks for a name. There is no way to tell people apart if they do that!
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Billy, I also type my stories in word first. One, mine are sort long, so if I have to go somewhere I can just save and come back later. An interestin' thought just crossed my mind. Coolcat+Mr. Rogers=The new Pinky and the Brain!
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

All you people think a t-rex could kill a velociraptor.Well first of all VELOCIRAPTORS and tyrannosauruses didn't live at the same plase and time.I know that velociraptora were the same size as a big dog not caunting its tail.But a pack of velociraptors could defenatly kill a t-rex.
from Paul, age 10, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

So you think a t-rex is smarter.Well think agian.Even tho a velociraptors brain is smaller it was still smarter.If t-rex was the size of a velociraptor its brain would be smaller then a velociraptors.Anyway why won't you tell me your name and age.If not that means your a chickensaurus rex.The king of all chickens.Thats jast a joke don't get mad.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I use Corel WordImperfect for my stories :)
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 19, 2000

The script is quite good, but it's impossible to make a paragraph by leaving a space in the start of the paragraph. Could that be remidied?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000
I'll talk to the guy that wrote that script and see what he can do. Also, he's looking into fixing the exclamation points that are inserted in some of your posts (they seem to come in really long paragraphs); it's tricky for the script to distinguish an intended exclamation point from one generated by a mail program. I try to get rid of them when I spot them. JC

Really? You think my latest pictures are good? Why so? For a moment, I thought they were badly done.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I'm not sure if you guys do this. But I ususally write my stories in MS word before posting it. It gives me time to edit it. Anyway, the next Old Blood is out.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Well, I would rather not rate the fan fics. It might cause some friction here.
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Yeah man, Coolcat and Mr Rogers are one kind. They can't get the world to agree with them so they say the world sucks. They probally have dreams of taking over the world. If they contuine to talk so much rubbish, lets have nothing to do with them ladies and gentlemen.

Anyway, what did you think of the Calvinosaurus Wattersoni?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I want to say in advance that my third section of my story is not as long as the first two. I don't think it's any worse though.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I just posted part three of the first book of the mezazoic chronicles. As always, I am looking for suggestions.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Ha, there you have it. Jc thinks this is dumb as well. Mr. Rogers, you can start being nice and cooperate with reason. But, you can take the other hand and never post again!
Coolcat, if you are going to continue posting, relate to the subject. If you insist about talking about a bunch of nonsense,go find a chat area with people who care! I have better things to do(Like count my nose hairs) than listen to you guys talking trash 24/7. Kay?!!! I hope everone here agrees. This message board is not made to diss women and other opinions. If anyone thinks that these two should just leave, you leave too. I say before we go back to mobbing them we should give them one+ chances back.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

The study of dinosaurs progresses by theories being suggested and then rejected, we won't learn anything if we are always right. But come on coolcat, there must be a more mature way to express yourself than "*BEEP*." While you're back, got anything to say about dinosaurs?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 19, 2000

You know, this Mr. Rogers thing is getting to the point where it is just plain stupid. There are two opinions we've so far overlooked. One, coolcat, how do you think this is going. No 2, this is something we all should have thought of long, long ago. JC, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? You're head honcho and you just hang back. You're opinion is the most iprtant one here.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000
This is your forum, not mine - I just moderate it (although I do wish it were more civil and that people weren't attacked so much, but that seems to happen everywhere on the Web). JC

That point someone made about driving away. Fyi, mr. rogers, on my first post I got corrected, just like you did, but, unlike you, I ddn't go dissing the world.
Brad: I live 6 hour drive away from one of the richest bone sites in the world.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Mr. Rogers and coolcat: You guys really should consider the situation before you go crazy like you have been. Coolcat, you had almost no relation to dinosaurs in your talk and were so wrapped up in yourself your antics flew way out of proportion. Mr. Rogers, you had inaccurate facts and when people began to tell you you were in correct you were so stuck up you drove them away.

You guys wonder why we're angry at you!
from Carchardontosaurus, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

JC, The last chaptor of special was messed up. I pressed enter while typing my name. Did you get the complete one yet?
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000
Got it. JC

*DINO FICTION NOTICE*
Dinosaur Cosmos: Dinosaurs Walked Here will be on hiatus for about a month or so. A new project, based on my own collections of local fossils, will be appearing soon. Get ready for "Sitting Around with Crinoids" :) Well, I'll see how much I can write about the lives of crinoids, shells, coral and stuff, then I'll write about my own history of fossil hunting, and then if I actually have something, I'll post it.

POLL: What are your local fossils like?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 19, 2000

Hey Lilan Tay! If you had to put all the books, at the dino fic. page, into the top 5, what would they be?
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I would rather refrain from any debate but I saw Mr rogers insulting Old Blood and Bill.

How can he! Billy Macdraw is probally the best fanfic writer over here. His fanfics are the best loved and most established ones. Nobody even comes close to matching his fanfics(the others are also good, thought) I thought the two chapters written by Honkie were good, but give me Bill anytime.
from Audrey L., age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

You know, I am geting real SICK AND TIRED of you juz only thinking of your self. I admit it, I was a jerk. But Mr.Rogers didn't do anything. But anyway I have a message for you, you don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot, do you Mr.Rogers?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

MR.ROGERS IS RIGHT THIS PLACE DOES *BEEP* AND I *BEEP*!!!!
from Coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I have to admit, we were mean to Mr.Rogers. But he's typical of a newbie. They come into the chatroom expecting everybody to agree with them, and when that dosen't happen, they get angry.

Levine, I'm sure Mr.Rogers was out of his mind when he insulted you. Don't take that to heart, okay? You too Billy. I think Old Blood totally rocks. Don't trash Mr.Rogers okay? He may seem really mean, but he is really very harmless, like a paper tiger. (Get my drift?)

Mr.Rogers. Is not that we want to gang up on you. We just happen to all disagree with what you said. And when you said we were cowars, of course all of us had to respond. There was no coordination involved, we simply mobbed you. Now if you would please calm down. Your theories and ideas are totally wrong. Now, here's what. On the behalf of everybody, let me apologise to you: I am sorry you are such a paper tiger and got all your facts wrong.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

HA HA HA, Mr.Rogers!Now you know how I felt. But I didn't go of and cry I Laughed! HA HA HA HA!!!!!!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Really? Is Mr.Rogers leaving? Alrigh-er I mean bad bad, this should not happen. (Remember not so cool coolcat who lost his cool?) Tsk Tsk, this is not a favourable situtation. But I guess is for the best, is "sad" for Mr.Rogers to leave but I guess he can't spread more misinformation like that. For your information Mr.Rogers. Levine is a paleontologist.
from Honky Tong, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

You know, I usually visit this webpage and look around in the chatrooms to find out what's going on. This is my first post to Zoom Dinosaurs. I must say I am discusted by the amount of anti-social stuff generated by the person here call Mr.Rogers. Is he saying all girls who think female Tyrannosaurus are bigger are all housewives? Are you call me and JC housewives? Mr.Rogers, mabye you should leave. You are a blight upond your country....oh yes, and take your paethic Dryptosaurus with you.
from Moyjo, age 14, Toyko, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Actually, I figure why they could stop telling Mr.Rogers he was wrong. It's something called "argument internia" The people in this argument really wanted to make sure they were flogging a dead horse (aka Mr Rogers) before they wnet on to the next point. Poor Mr Rogers, his tiny ego is bombarded to bits!
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Hi, just one point. We prefer to measure T.rexes bite force in newtons, but if you must, he bit at around 3000-5000 psi in a normal bite. In one of those snappy attack bites, he would have reached up to 12000psi.

As for Mr.Rogers. I am no regular visitor here, but even I don't agree with you. You are loud, obscene, have no respect for your elders, obviously a male chavinist and ceratinly wrong. What's your problem? No, I do not think people are ganging up on you. You are probally as unpopular as Hitler. Actung! Jawolh Mien Furier!
from Shian, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

What are you talking about Mr.Rogers? Are you claiming in any way women are weaker? Get this right okay? I am the real Ego Man and I host the Ego Trip in perfect 10 98.7fm. If you don't agree with what I say, ...
from Glenn Ong Francis Su K., age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Hey guys, I the next Old Blood is here. Any suggestions? Allosaurus is making a apperance soon. Darn, one of the casuties of my story should have been named Rogers.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Hey guys, I just posted a corny picture of a Calvinosaurus Wattersoni, I apparently had nothing to do.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I have taken some photos of Stan, do you wanna see them?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I have involved in this "Tyrannosaurus, predator or scavenger" Debate. And I find it rather tedious and absurd. It's highly unlikely Tyrannosaurus was a full time predaotr or scavenger. I have still no idea how Horner is going to argue his case with the discovery of healed Tyrannosaur attack marks, but he goes on doing so. (Moron!)
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

I am a officer, an by profession a gentleman, but if I did not get you wrong, did you just threaten us? Now, I if you may so want, I will be unrefined. Honkie, and all you other people, you are all right. Mr.Rogers, you are what you armericans call a MCP.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 19, 2000

Brad, I take less than no offence on that note. You will find out her name and a lot more about her in chap, 5 anyway. I just wanted to keep her sorta misterious and unknown until later, Ya know?
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

Honkie, I really like your new pictures!!!!! How do you do it?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000

Okay, carchar, I'm not being mean, but you asked for opinions-

If your male characters have names, your female characters need names too.

Okay? Hope that didn't offend anyone. :)
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000

I am glad to announce I have posted Chapter 4 of my EIFAR story. As always I need comments and opinions on my stories. I should have said this before but I would like to thank my good friends Alex and Scott for allowing me to use their names and even personalities. Also, guys a lot of you are truly mean to Mr. Rogers. What did he do that was so horrible. Not everyone on the planet is the worlds leading expert on dinosaurs. This site is also for sharing opinions with others. Mr. Rogers, if you are still reading, we appreciate your opinions as much as anyone else here. Just, before you say something is 100% true, check your sources and facts.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

JC, great job on the fan fic page. It looks a lot better and is easier to navigate. Brad, exellent point about caring for it's young. I hadn't thought about that.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

Can you all stop driving people away? I know its fun to argue about dinosaurs, but can we all try to be a little nicer? If someone objects to an argument, stop!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000

You know, since you guys are too busy trying gang up on me than be intelligent and normal. I thought this was a place where ppl could talk dinosaur and have fun, not another dam chat room. This place (*&%& and you guys are petty and the only reason girls are worse is becuase they feel insignificant to a guy and the want so badly for the female to be bigger, dum housewives. You all really need to mature some more AND THINK FOR YOURSELVES ANd yeah thats right Im bwoy and bosstiger. I am paleontological material, and you guys and your old blood stuff and all that clique crap really are petty. I definetly dont need all this hell just trying to communicate and learn something cuz one 24 yr old ego tripper decides to pick on me and gets you superfools with him. Im outta here and youll see me get to the top despite what you say. Ive overcome a WHOLE LOT and the last thing i need is some idiot and some ugly, stinky girl named sue h to tell me I will never get anywhere. I couldve been so much less. Geez you guys are mean. Im so out.
from MrRogers, age 15, ?, ?, USA; November 18, 2000

I theorize dryptosaurus and theropods like it were carnivores that ran after fast moving and light herbivores, and those big hooks on the paws were used to hook or grapple prey maybe in the tail or something to make it trip or fall (kinda like a cheetah does dont ya think) but whoever said it was deadliest pound for pound is sooo wrong. Im not really sure who was deadliest pound for pound, but if all predators were same size,which is pound for pound, I think it miiiggghhht beee.......well Ive come to more than 1 dinosaur=Yangchuanosaurus, Daspletosaurus, utahraptor carcharodontosaurus and dromeosaurus. I read that dromaeosaurus had a big solid head kinda like a tyrannosaur, but with a raptor body.Im not sayin hes the deadliest, but he seems a little more armed than other raptors. Ive read all this crud recently about dinosaurs not having lips and the muscle scars are right there! THe dinosaur heresies and Predatory dinosaurs of the world proclaim that they did have lips because of the muscle scars like lizard skulls, I draw dinosaurs and other animals and I like to draw by the facts and I love detail. Im sure dinosaurs had lips, but instead of being all covered in scales like reptile lips, they may have been more reminiscent like the skin on a birds face or just covered with smaller scales since dinosaurs are not reptiles, but a superorder extension of the archosauria that also has extensions of the Aves and the thecodonts.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, America; November 18, 2000

I SAID MORE THAN once I was wrong about Sue, but you guys just keep goin on and on and on! Why you gotta gang up on me? And Levine and Billy are the same thing. Im not always wrong either. You guys are just actin like sheep, when one does something, so does all the rest of you, you wont even give me a chance. Im not a mean guy, Im not arrogant and Im really tired of levine trying to fight with me. You guys except honky tong are the worst. I agreed I was woinrg about Sue but the pamphlet at Field DID SAY THAT THEY DID FIND A CHEVRON WITH THE SUE SKELETON and its recent too. At least they have Ph.Ds, not some stuck up nerdy college student like levine. Dam I wish you would stop pickin with me.
from Mr.Rogers, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

WHo said Sue was a boy??? Sue's female! You can tell by the skull. My favorite dinosaur is probably Carcharodontosaurus. I think in a fight he could take T.Rex. Yeah he could now a guy think about it. Longer head. Ive been studying paleontology since I was 4 but at that time that was the simple stuff, but still the stuff. I like dinosaurs alot, but I like mammals and reptiles and amphibians too. I dont reall have a fav I guess. I like em all. Does anyone know what it feels like when sometimes you try to talk about dinosaurs or somthing to other ppl and they think you freaky?? WHats the debate about?
from BossTiger, age ?, ?, IL, USA; November 18, 2000

The sharp-tooth bite other dinosaurs and sharp-tooths are bad to people. When the planet starts to fire the dinosaurs and the dinosaurs die, the people come. That's how the dinosaurs died.
from Leif P., age 5, Grand Blanc, MI, USA; November 18, 2000

No, I think firebird wants each different story to be placed in its own row, with titles on seperate lines.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000
Ok, see if you like it. Also, to firebird: I don't have chapters 1 and two of "Raptor." JC

Dryptosaurus's killing power is only pathetic compared to T.rex. Dryptosaurus was still larger than a tiger or polar bear, and would be pretty scary to us. Even if it only attacked things smaller than itself, we must remember that it was 20 feet long, medium-sized by dinosaur standards and large by modern standards. Dryptosaurus would have no problem eating you. Dryptosaurus may be an agile lightly-built theropod similar to Deltadromeus and Nqwebasaurus, attacking with quick slashing movents similar to the way some of us picture raptors. I don't think Dryptosaurus was weak, but it just can't be compared to Tyrannosaurus rex. It's too different, and cool in other ways.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000

I don't see why a scavenger couldn't have forward facing eyes or directional hearing? Perhaps these senses helped Tyrannosaurus care for its young?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 18, 2000

I have a suggestion for the dino fic page.

The page will look like this:

Firebird(or the name of the person):

RAPTOR

Chaptor:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Making

Island:

Chaptor:
intro1 intro2 1 2

Special

Special:
1
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000
Do you essentally want to get rid of the first few sentences on that page? JC

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Andrew and Eugene are in a Dino Book! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from Firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

Is there anyone here that agrees with Jack Horner that t-rex was a scavenger. I DONT! Think, here is a list of my opinions.
1. If he was a scavenger, What would be the point of having eyes that face forward?
2. With jaw pressure over 5,000 pounds behind each tooth, I have no doubt about his killing capabilities.
3. Why would a scavenger need to have directional hearing? Do the caracasses call their names?
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

i LIKE POSTER DINOSURUS PLAESE i LIKE MUCH DINO
from JOAQUIN V C, age 4, PUERTO MONTT, DECIMA REGION, CHILE; November 18, 2000

Who here has seen the Imax movie T-REX? It was pretty cool, but I had a bit of a problem with the shape of the Rex's head. I don't know why, maybe I watch to much Jp and WWD. Brad, have you tried trespasser again? if you need help lmk.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 18, 2000

Yay! More Singaporeans! WooHoo! More people I can relate with! Yippee!

Anyway, please do not attack each other. This is a place of learning, but it can only be a place of learning if it i free of confilct. Let's put aside our emotions and focus on finding the truth. (At least that's what my principal says every time there's a fight.....)

Yah, Honkie Tong, I've been to the exhibition and it is rather poor. An observation made by my mother was that the Utahraptor tail was joined to the GENITAL AREA AND NOT THE SPINAL COLUMN! THAT IS THE ULTIMATE INSULT TO RAPTOR FANS! BURN THEM! BURN THEM! Whoops.... let my emotions run abit, sorry..... I also saw the simulator and it is rather weird. How could the titanosaur kill 2 raptors!?!?!?

One other thing... Mr. Rogers, I was the person who suggested that raptors filled the ecological niche of small predator with a social structure akin to lions that took down big herbivores, not Honkie Tong. Just making a correction. No offense.

Also, the kill scene I described somewhere down there in the depths of the forum can be found in Walking with Dinosaurs so I wasn't the first to come to that conclusion. (I didn't copy either! I came to that conclusion independently!)It is in episode 4, the one with the Utahraptors.
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

While we used to imagine the Mesozoic world as a landscape of sluggish swampdwellers, we now envision a world populated by a panoply of colorful, noisy, fast and cunning hot-blooded monsters. This is great for the Dinobiz, but does it make scientific sense? Did Dinosaurs operate under rules of physiology and evolutionary pressure substantially different from those of today? Did they develop markedly better solutions for dealing with their world than those that have evolved since? Let's look at the currently hot group, Dryptosaurus. In books and magazines these theropods comprised the fastest and nastiest, as Mr.Rogers said. They were dressed to the nines in spikes and knives; cold-blooded homeothermic killers. While all members of this class had an impressive set of saw-edged teeth and formidably clawed forelimbs, it is the hypertrophied claws on the second fingers of their forelimbs that have transfixed our imagination. We are repeatedly told that these agile carnivores hunted, slashing their large but lumbering prey to death in a series of back-foot blitzkriegs. Wait...does this really make sense? Did they really use those curvaceous claws for slicing and dicing formidable foes into hors-d'ouvres sized snacks? I suspect it was more likely they rarely ate anything that couldn't have been nailed in a one-bite solo effort unless it was already dead. Heresy!!? Stop and consider this from an evolutionary standpoint. As Dryptosaurus were lightly built, they probably did rely on speed and agility. As they were bipedal, their back legs would have been essential to their survival. Almost any injury to such important structures would have been rapidly fatal to a creature relying on pursuit speed and kicking power. Want to break an arm? Try to slash a large and angry herbivore that basically consists of thick skin over huge muscles. Ribs, pe! lvic bones, scutes, shields and flailing limbs would have made vital organs difficult targets. Aside from the likely humiliation of breaking a nail, they would have been at high risk for shattering a claw trying such tactics. Crippled dinosaurs didn't have a high likelihood of reproducing, leaving them losers in Darwin's evolutionary derby. Perhaps that is why they were rare in the Cretaceous, giving way to the smash-mouth hunting tactics of the Tyrannosaurs(yeah!). It is more likely that Dryptosaurus mostly used their razor-like teeth on smaller prey. If they did use claws, it was probably the impressive armament on their forelimbs which would have been much easier to control and less risky to survival if injured. So, what were those carpet cutters for? If there had to be a feeding function, consider other possibilities. They would have been useful for cutting through thick skin after their meal h! ad been immobilized by other means. They could have been used to rip aprt termite nests and beehives, or to dig up whatever resembled prairie dog towns of their era. If they had a taste for escargot, the claws were perfectly shaped for extracting the delicate morsels from their spiral shells.

Yes, the poor Dryptosaurus was using its claw, but probably as a defensive weapon!The large slashing claw on the cassowary is a good example of such a weapon evolving purely for defensive purposes. These birds are incredibly dangerous when trapped in close quarters although they are more likely to run away than take chances with their valuable claws in a battle. It makes sense to risk an incapacitating injury only if the alternative is being eaten.

If you are uncomfortable with these magnificent structures solely serving a protective function, what could be a more likely use? Why, sex of course. Many of the most extravagant and bizarre structures in nature are primarily used to attract a mate or to intimidate rivals. A set of large claws could be very useful for displaying to a potential mate or for ritualized combat. Look at the modern rooster, possessing impressive and dangerous spurs, but hardly famed as a fierce hunter.

Tyrannosaurus on the other hand was far more functional, Tyrannosaurus rules!
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

You're right Honkie, the last T.rex fan probally isn't born yet.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

I agree Yhri, Mr.Rogers is dead wrong.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Say brad, there is a scan of the phamplet I took from the exibition. You can look at it in the pictures page. Also drawn are two very badly done dinosaurs.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

I find this debate about "Sue's" gender rather tedious and absurd. "Sue" is refered to as a "She" because of her name. In the begining, we thought "she" was male, but now we think "she" was female. True gender is hard to determine, but we are quite certain "Sue" was female. But if you ask me, I have always thought this was irrevalant.

Mr.Rogers, what Levine said was right. You are hardly paleontological material.
from Sue H., age ?, ?, Cheyenne, U.S.A; November 17, 2000

I agree Gunney, like some people hate Tyrannosaurus because he is popular, some people hate the M-2 Browning. The last M-2 gunner probally hasn't been born yet.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Robert Bakker said that T.Rex had the best eyesight of any dinosaur, even Troodon. Is this true and why? It's in direct contradiction to what Horner said, about T.rex having pooer eyesight. Also, somebody told us that Stan suffered a broken neck, but somehow survived to kill again.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

You know, Mr.Rogers kinda reminds my of that Horner in Old Blood. Arragont, self-assuming, imcompetent and most of all, wrong.
from Lilian Tay, age ?, Singapore, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

"Levine, you have a big mouth a very big ego sir. I already said I agreed about the Tyrannosaur sex issue and was not flogging anything. You really really want to have an argument and I came here to just talk dinosaur like other people, unlike you and billy who want to show everyone up. I do not have the energy to argue with someone as hostile and small minded as the likes of you. Now if you were any paleontological material, you wouldnt rest on the fact that everyone will gang up with against me..that is just cowardice. Your talking very hostile and show yourself as impulsive. I say again I just want to talk dinosaurs with people in my own age group and are just as excited as me, not someone like you who wants to best himself by putting others down. It is a quest for knowledge and understanding, not to build your ego. So if you wanna argue, go to your momma."

Excuse me? But did you call Levine impulsive? Talk about not seeing yourself in the mirror! Mr.Rogers, you are actually the impulsive one. You are against the world, you are alone. Who agrees Mr.Rogers is as wrong as wrong can be?
from Yhri Y., age 16, Kobe, ?, Japan; November 17, 2000

I have noticed my son taking part in this debate and I would like to say that Mr.Rogers' point of view is sadly inaccurate.

He keeps insisting that Dryptosaurus was the deadilest, pound for pound. The question was...how deadly was it? Tyrannosaurus Rex was deadilest because he could inflict the most damage ever known. To avoid Mr.Rogers repeating his invalid point like a broken record, lets enlighten him.

M-92F 9mm Berreta.
Weight: 1.2kilos
Muzzle Energy: 642jules

M-2 Browning Heavy Machine Gun
Weight: 13kilos
Muzzle Energy: 1780jules

Now, if you would notice, the Berreta is actually deadiler, pound for pound. But still, in the end, the M-2 still exceeds the Berreta in firepower. For Mr. Rogers, since keeps using the pound for pound deadilest argument, why don't he try using the Berreta against a guy with a M-2 Browning? No? It's obvious is it not? In the Marine Corps, we don't go for the weapon which is deadilest, pound for pound. We go for the DEADILEST weapon.
from Gunnery Sgt. Iilaho, age 34, 29 palms, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Dryptosaurus is more powerful? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnieeeeeee! HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH!HA HA AH AH AH AHA AH AH AH! That was a good one. We, the citizens of Singapore, prefer Tyrannosaurus.
from Weiming, age 14, Singapore, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

I THINK DRYPTOSAURUS BEHAVED LIKE A MEAN CHICKEN. HE PROBALLY BULLIED ANYTHING THAT WAS SMALLER AND RAN AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT WAS BIGGER. I THINK HE IS NOT AS GOOD AS TYRANNOSAURUS. I DON'T TURST MR.ROGERS ABOUT HOW POWERFUL DRYPTOSAURUS IS.AT FIRST, HE COULDN'T EVEN SPELL ITS NAME, YET HE WENT INTO THIS CHATROOM SHOUTING AND SCREAMING. HA! WHAT A FUNNY SIGHT.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Mr Rogers/Bowoy(they are one person) is a flat-earther. Like those people who think the world is flat. They run around shouting and screaming that the world is flat but have very little evidence of it. In fact, the bark is worse than the bite. No matter how much scientific evidence we present them, they still insist on their view. Mordern flat-earthers believe that AIDS does not exist, the Soviet Union trained children in Esp and that Tyrannosaur males were bigger than the females. There is nothing left for us to do but to attend their funerals...Americans!
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Hi, the next old blood is coming out. Just because you guys might ask: No, I do not think the Dryptosaurus was anywhere close to Tyrannosaurus. Tyrannosaurus was so cool, Dryptosaurus probally scavenged on his dung, but watch the next dinowarz for this.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

I agree, Dryptosaurus probally used his claws for grappeling prey...small prey.Dryptosaurus wanst a hardosaur hunter, the hardosaurs would have easily wounded him. Anyway, Tyrannosaurus had the highest damage potential of any other land based carnivorous animal known to man. With a attack bite of about about 9000newtons, Tyrannosaurus could shatter a tough Triceratops pelvis in a bite. T.rex teeth were extremely strong and wistoop such stresses easily.

As for Dryptosaurus, the two claws were quite oval in cross section and attatched to the finger by a socket joint. I don't see Drytosaurus coming anywhere near the damage potential of Tyrannosaurus. Please, it like telling an M1 commander a magmum is a powerful weapon. Tyrannosaurus was the top preator and would have happily eaten Dryptosaurus if it wasn't careful.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Mr Rogers/Bwoy, I think your ego hurts more. I will have to reveal this piece of infomation to you then: Both male and female Tyrannosaurus have chevon bones, but there are subtle differences in between them. The reason we compair mordern day raptors to them is because they were the closest living decendents to the predatory dinosaurs. Actually, the reason we suspect that males were smaller is that most the fragillis form of Tyrannosurus tended to be flashier with the nasal display. We seriously suspect that the males were smaller, not because we like it that way, but because of what we found. Nobody can determine gender for certainty.

Mr Rogers, you just keep insisting and repeating the point that mammals then to be larger in the males. Well, can we say that the predatory mammals all walked on four legs, so did T.rex? O fcourse not. I don't see any reason the dinosaurs should follow in the footsteps of the mammals. Anyway, animals with lower EQ tended to have females that are larger...do you know your biology. I am afraid you are hardly paleontological material, sir.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

The exibit is now in Singapore. Personally, I prefered the Dinosaur World Tour. Well, at least we had Stan.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Hey JC could you put the making of RAPTOR before all the other RAPTORs, PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASE??????????????
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000
OK, JC

When that exhibit was in Sudbury, there was only a single Pachycephalosaurus. And no T. rex skeleton. I don't even think Deinonychus was there. But we did get animatronic Baryonyx and Allosaurus, lots of little fossils like claws and eggs, and an Imax movie. I didn't like the Utahraptor either, the skin looked wrong and the way he was he had the sauropod's neck in his mouth dangling by a thread was just kind of dumb. Where is the exhibit now?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 17, 2000

Actually, Dryptosaurus could have had the same ecological role as Tyrannosaurus. Dryptosaurus was the biggest predator of eastern North America during the Late Cretaceous, wasn't it? Both Tyrannosaurus and Dryptosaurus would have preyed on hadrosaurs, Edmontosaurus for T. rex and Hadrosaurus for Dryptosaurus.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 17, 2000

I heard that discussion about tyrannosaurus being the most deadly. No Way. He was dangerous, yeah, but most deadly, hahaha! Pound for pound, Dromaeosaurus probably was. He had a huge head with big solid teeth and a raptor body. Everybody wants to say T.Rex was simply because T.Rex is everybody's favorite and instead of looking for the tru, so many want to put their fav in the spotlight. Please people. Dryptosaurus probably used his claw for grappling prey and used his head more for defense. About the chevron, Chevrons aint on skulls!!!!!!!!! Now thats funny. There at the tail base, no doubt. Oh yeah, many kinds of female carnivorous bats are bigger than the males too... so maybe levine and mr.rogers should think maybe its that female size dominance is pretty much on flying animals like pterosaurs. Im not saying for sure, but think about it. Maybe most dinosaur males were bigger than the females, the idea pput forth of the visa versa is a theory! Car! nivorous female bats and hyenas are bigger than the males, but not all mammals are like that. Maybe it aint good to compare dinosaurs much to mammals, but they were the most numerous land animals at the time like mammals of the cenozoic. THink folks! Crocs are just as close to dinos as birds are, and the males are always bigger. I aint saying all dino males were bigger, but not all of em were smaller either. Theres a good reason for greater male size, like defense of females and more reproduction. Like if anyone knows about how Tiger's territories go with the females, its kinda like a colony, but everyone gives eachother a lil more space, probably like many dinosaurs did. I think folks who jump to compare dinosaur niches, behavior and drives for body evolution to modern birds of prey should think if mammals were extinct, would you jump to say modern bats are just like the wolves and buffalo of the past??? Will everyone jump against me cause you guys know each other? Thats ki! nda dumb.
from Bwoy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Levine, you have a big mouth a very big ego sir. I already said I agreed about the Tyrannosaur sex issue and was not flogging anything. You really really want to have an argument and I came here to just talk dinosaur like other people, unlike you and billy who want to show everyone up. I do not have the energy to argue with someone as hostile and small minded as the likes of you. Now if you were any paleontological material, you wouldnt rest on the fact that everyone will gang up with against me..that is just cowardice. Your talking very hostile and show yourself as impulsive. I say again I just want to talk dinosaurs with people in my own age group and are just as excited as me, not someone like you who wants to best himself by putting others down. It is a quest for knowledge and understanding, not to build your ego. So if you wanna argue, go to your momma.
from Mr.Rogers, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

Hey guys, I just visited a dino exibition at the Science Center today, and I can see that despite improving a lot on pervious exibitions, they still got some parts totally wrong. The anatromic Utahraptor's head was out of proportion to its body and the claws were way too big. A Utaraptor claw is about the size of a T.rex tooth, but the claw they had on the raptor here was way oversized.

The Deinonychus were alright, but looked more like Celophysis, with their necks stuck out. The unkindest cut of all, hey show two anatromic Pachys trying to ram each other head on, something we now know would have killed them outright.

The T.Rex was also poorly done, looking more like a fat B-grade move prop. The only thing right about it was its scale and non-vertical trunk posture.

They did get the apatosaurs right though. Eariler reconstructions had them with graceful swan-shaped necks, the new reconstructions had the necks stuck out straight. Prehaps the saving grace of the exibition was the skeleton of Stan the Tyrannosaur, quite big for a Tyrannosaur Fraglius. I kinda wished they had put Sue on thoug:)

Anyway, I also went for the Dino Simulator ride, you were right Brad, I think they made this entire thing up. Having a Deinonychus attack a Titanosaur? It sounds crazy but they put it across so convincingly. I seriously suspect that they made up the entire story.(they should have given us the benifit of the truth by telling us if this story was true or not) A Titanosaur nailing two agile (okay, one was injured) Deinonychus in one blow? Unlikely. A Deinonychus attacking a Titanosaur? Unlikely. A Titanosaur rushing in to defend its young? How did it run so fast. I suppose this entire ride was made during raptor fever; the time where everybody thought a raptor regulary hunted sauropods.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 17, 2000

OOOKKKK, I posted 2 of my drawings on the "fan art" board, a Male and a Female Cryolophosaurus ("frozen crested lizard")! They're fairly old but I like how they came out anyways, especially the female.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Firebird, to further your last post, I have a little more detail on that. Originally, go-motion was going to be used, but Steven found it kind of jerky, if you will. Later another man showed speilberg a test. All this first test was was a bunch of gallimimus skeletons running around. The next test was a flesh rex chasing the gallis. Stephen was convinced, so he showed tippet(the go motion dude) the tests, he looked at speilberg and said "I'm extinct." For malcolm's line they added a bit to that.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

The complete Tyrannosaurus

Once thought to be the largest landbased carnivore that ever lived, it has recently been relegated to second place by the discovery of the 80% complete skeleton of Giganotosaurus carolinii, from Patagonia in Argentina, South America. Estimates made by Gregory S.Paul suggest that Giganotosaurus, Carcharodontosaurus and Tyrannosaurus were approximately the same size and weight, with Giganotosaurus perhaps being slightly larger than the others. This may represent the upper size limit for predatory theropods, in which case no larger species may ever be found.

The tyrannosaur drawing on the left was one of the first dinosaur reconstructions I was truly happy with, being based on Dr Gregory Paul's skeletal reconstruction from his book "Predatory Dinosaurs of the World". Two years later and there are things I would like to change about it (my illustration that is, not Greg Paul's book. Then again...). The image on the right is based on the Museum of the Rockies mount of the Wankel Tyrannosaur (named after its discoverer Kathy Wankel) found in 1988 and excavated by Dr Jack Horner and company in 1990, which formed the basis for Dr Horner's book "The Complete T.rex". This is my current vision of what a Tyrannosaur may have looked like, stooping down to gnaw on food or to attend a nest.

The Wankel T.rex may have been a male. It is thought that the first proximal chevron beneath the tail of theropods may have differed between males and females, as it does in living crocodiles. It is this bone that the penis retracting muscles attach to in crocodiles, and which is quite different in females which do not use it for this function (obviously). Female Tyrannosaurs in general tend to be larger and more robust than males, just as female birds of prey tend to be.

The largest T.rex remains ever found belong to "Sue" (named after its discoverer Sue Hendrickson), found in South Dakota in 1990. Initial estimates gave her (it is probably female) length as up to 17 metres, although personal estimates give her length at not much more than 13 metres, not unusual for adult tyrannosaurs. Her bones are more robust than most specimens, suggesting that she was at least the heaviest tyrannosaur known.

The top speed of a T.rex has been estimated at as much as 70 kilometres per hour (43 miles per hour) by Dr Robert Bakker (palaeontologist and author of Raptor Red, a fictional account of a year in the life of a Utahraptor ostrammaysorum). Recent estimates are more conservative. Calculations made by James Farlow, in association with a physicist and a model maker (John Robinson and Matt Smith), indicate that if a T.rex was to stumble and fall at 70 KPH it would have hit the ground with six times the force of gravity, killing it instantly. They estimate that a safe speed for an adult T.rex would have been around 35 KPH (22 MPH).

Using formulae developed by R.McNeill Alexander I have estimated the speed of the T.rex in my reconstruction as around 7 KPH (4 MPH), a brisk walk for a tyrannosaur. This also happens (quite by accident) to be the speed estimated for a large meat eater that walked across a mud flat at Lark Quarry near Winton, in Queensland Australia, around 100 million years ago (the Early Cretaceous). Its footprints, and several hundred others of smaller carnivorous and herbivorous dinosaurs, have been preserved when the mud was covered by further deposits, which hardened and eventually turned to stone. Perhaps this was a common walking speed for large meat eaters. Contrary to what many artistic depictions of tyrannosaurs would have us believe, it is doubtful that such large creatures would have spent much of their time running at full speed. Most modern carnivorous animals spend most of their time lazing about, and only run when it is absolutely necessary. Therefore I have chosen to depict T! .rex doing what it probably did most: walking around at a leasurely pace, with its mouth closed. Not as dramatic as a tyrannosaur at full speed with its jaws gaping open, but probably more realistic.

Studies of endocasts have shown that T.rex had excellant vision, smell and hearing, as you would expect of a predator. Standing still to avoid a T.rex would not have worked, as Michael Crichton states in his sequel to Jurassic Park, The Lost World. One thing tyrannosaurs lacked was a well developed cerebral cortex, the part of the brain responsible for conscious thought. Dromaeosaurs on the other hand had one of the largest relative brain sizes of any dinosaur, probably third behind tro-odontids (such as Tro-odon formusus), and ornithomimids (such as Gallimimus bullatus). This may sound impressive, but even these dinosaur geniuses were only in the lower end of the relative brain-size scale of modern birds. Crows or parrots could have out-thought a dromaeosaur any day.

Large theropods are mostly unknown from Australia by skeletal material, the largest being Rapator ornitholestoides from New South Wales, known only from a metacarpal (hand) bone and estimated at around 8 metres (26 feet) long. However large theropod footprints up to 58 cm (23 inches) wide have been found in Western Australia, from an individual perhaps 10 m (33 feet) long, indicating that Australia also had its share of large predators. Even larger footprints (71 cm) have been found in Jurassic coal deposits in Queensland indicating an animal of tyrannosaur proportions. The best preserved fossil footprints are found in Winton, Queensland, and near Broome in Western Australia. Unfortunately some of the Broome footprints were cut out of the rock and stolen in 1996, including some of the only known footprints from what may have been a stegosaur. In 1997 a new dinosaur trackway was discovered at an undisclosed site somewhere along the Western Australian coast, with literally thous! ands of dinosaur footprints having been preserved. Information on Australian dinosaur trackways can be found at the Australian mirror site.

When people imagine a Tyrannosaurus rex attack, they imagine the victim as a helpless hadrosaur or a battling Triceratops. But evidence from recently excavated T.rex bones indicates that these animals frequently turned their six-inch-long teeth and deadly claws upon each other. Like lions in the Serengetti plain, T.rex individuals and family groups may have engaged in brutal combat as they fought for supremacy over choice hunting grounds. They may even have practiced cannibalism on others of their own species.

This new view of T.rex comes from three fossil skeletons unearthed over the last five years by scientists at the Black Hills Institute of Geological Research in Hill City, South Dakota. The fossils were all found within a one-square-mile area in sedimentary layers separated by only a dozen or so yards, meaning the individuals lived within a few thousand years of one another.

Paleontologist and Institute president Peter Larson thinks this proximity in time and space isn't just a coincidence. In the late Cretaceous, 65 Ma ago, this locality was a lush environment of forests and streams, perfect for plant eaters and the carnivores that fed on them. Many modern predators fight for dominance over prime real estate, so it's easy to imagine T.rex having done so as well.

Larson points to horrific wound marks to indicate that T.rexes fought fierce battles over territory. A male specimen named "Stan" had a T. rex-tooth shaped hole in the back of his skull that later healed.

But perhaps the most intriguing insight into T.rex behavior comes from the latest find, a specimen named "Steven." Some of "Steven's" vertebrae were literally bitten in half, and the vertebral bones that connected to tenderloin and T. rex T-bone steaks are missing. The only known animal living at the time with large enough and strong enough jaws to bite through T.rex bone was T.rex.

According to Larson, this is the first evidence that T.rex may have feasted on its own kind. "We knew they fought each other, we knew they killed each other once in a while, but we didn't know they ate each other too," he said.

While this may seem contradictory to the emerging idea of social behaviour, this may actually prove social behaviour. "It's like going to the mall and seeing that every other man has a broken arm. Something in T.rex behaviour must be causing this." He says.

It's highly likely that Tyrannosaurus may have gathered in social groups, abet, violent and savage groups. However, there has been speculation that Tyrannosaurus was also a caring parent, safe for its canabilistic pratices. A juvinile Tyrannosaurus named "Tinker" was found near Sue. " That little guy was obviously hanging around the big adult" Larson says. " If Tyrannosaurus was unconditionaly canabilistic, Tinker would have been found in many pieces, not as a articulated skeleton." It seems that despite their ruthlessness, Tyrannosaurus did take care of their young, unlike previously thought.

Even more evidence have been found in the fossil of Tinker. Tinker, besides being found near two adults, was found with acid etched Hardosaur bones within him, as did Sue. This was contray to the solitary image of Tyrannosaurus of course. It was unlikely that Sue would have let Tinker near a dead Hardosaur if she was the soLitary animal we made her out to be. She was obviously sharing a meal with Tinker.

Sue's leg also showed a broken bone that was painful and hard to heal, leaving her slightly lame. "It would have been impossible for her to hunt." he says. Larson speculates that Sue must have had a mate to bring her food. It seems that it was possible that Tyrannosaurus may have pair bonded or orginised themselves into packs with a strict pecking order, hence the injuries.

As for the canabilism? It was possible that Steven got killed during a fight for a mate or more likely, Tyrannosaurus was not extremely picky about scavenging from its own species.
from Jeff Poling, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Hey, these words look VERY FIMILIAR. Anyway, here are a few cool titles for fan fics:
tyrannosauruseS With Ass-kicking Tatics (S.W.A.T)
woops, I forgot the rest, tellya later
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

They are technicians; they see the immediate situation. They have what I call `thintelligence', they think narrowly and they call it `being focused'. But they don't see the surroundings, they don't see the consequences

No. I will tell you the problem with engineers and scientists; they spin an elaborate line of bullshit about how they are seeking to find the truth about nature. Which is true that's not what that drives them, they don't spent their time driven by abstractions such as seeking the truth, dear me, no.

But scientist are preoccupied with accomplishment. At the cost of what's true or not. They never stop to consider if they should do something. They conveniently define such considerations as pointless. If they didn't do it, somebody else will. This is the game in science, to be the first to do something; it's all about accomplishment, they don't care about the consequences that may proceed whatever they do. To them, discovery is inevitable, so why not be the first to discover it? That's Newtonian science, it has nothing to do with the truth, it's a system that uses truth as a cover for reckless accomplishment.

" Even pure scientific development is aggressive and penetrative. Particle accelerators leave radioactive waste. Astronauts leave trash on the moon. Even antibiotics made by man breed superbugs. Discovery is a rape of the natural world. Always.

And scientists want it that way. What good would your discovery be if it didn't leave long and lasting scars? They have to stick their instruments in. they have to make their mark. They can't just watch. They can't just appreciate. They can't just fit into the natural order, they have to make something unnatural happen. This is the scientist's job, and now we have entire societies trying to be scientific.
from Unabomber, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

No, is that fan fic bug true?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

I believe that female predator dinosaurs are bigger than males. Most cases of sexual dismorphism in birds of prey show that the female always bigger and stronger than the male. Why? well, most mammals are K-stratigests, they produce a few young but take good care of them, meaning that the females don't have to be bigger as she dosen't need to produce young. Dinosaurs are somewhere between R and a K stratigists, we suspect Tyrannosaurus was a R/K stratigest, producing a lot of eggs, up to 12 in a batch. Egg production takes energy and requires a good platform to do so. Thus, a robustus Tyrannosaur would make sense.

Besides, all chevron bones/ if they are even chervon bones found were found on the fragilis form of Tyrannosaurus, not the robustus. It turns out that SAue was a Tyrannosaurus Robustus.

Besides, chervon studies are hardly conclusive. As one scientist admitted, we could suddenly discover that all Tyrannosaurus had a "chervon" bone and that really wasn't a chervon bone after all. Sex can be told more conclusively from the skulls. Skulls with a lot of decorative nasal bones are exclusively found on the fragilis Tyrannosaurus. While the plain ones are found on the robustus. Males in the animal world all display for a mate, primates being the exception. So it could be stated rather conclusively that Tyrannosaurus fragilis was the male animal while robustus was the female. Sue was certainly a robustus.

I'm sorry Mr.Rogers (or whatever your alter-egos might be) but its an ungodly hour here in Cambridge and I would like to conclude:

Please stop harping on this issue anymore, like what some people said, it would be flogging a dead horse. You could contuine and argue that the males were bigger...but I doubt anybody would take you seriously.

I'm afraid Dryptosaurus was not as deadily as you thought. Besides, like the raptors, Dryptosaurus did not have any stress wounds on its claws, indicating it did not bring them to extreme stresses. Even worse, it had been found that Dryptosaurus' claw was not well muscled, it could swing it like a sickle, yes, but not much more. If you ask me, even Tyrannosaurus' two hands had more function. At least they were there for a purpose.

I suspect that Dryptosaurus' claw was more of a display tool than a fighting tool. Dryptosaurus was probally a hunter of smaller, defenceless animals and not big game prey. The claw could have been used for defence, like Velociraptor, who died defending itself. Paleontology is not about what you expect, but what you find. Dryptosaurus was probally fleet footed and nimble to avoid predation by other dinosaurs. It probally wasn't as fierce as you make it out to be. It probally lurked in the shadow of the top carnivores while it went its way, trying to avoid being eaten in it's dinosaur eat dinosaur world.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Did you know...

Did you know that JP, the movie, was going to be done with stop-motion anamation? I've seen the raptor part in stop-motion. Someone did the same part witj CGI. Speilburg was amazed and look at the stop-motion anamation guy and said "What do you think of that?"
He said "I think I'm out of a job."
Speilburg said "Don't you mean extinct?"
And those lines were in the movie!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Whoever knows the answer to this let me know please. In some of the fanfics and posts, exclamation marks that weren't there when we wrote them are popping out. Anyone else noticed this?
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

I wasn't serious about the compy. I think it's a cool thing to spark conversation.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Err guys, I am posting another picture. But I don't think I will be posting for a while. Because I am working on "Walking With Dinosaurs, a speculated history" It's not really a fanfic, just a speculation on dinosaur life. It a big project. Any clues Billy?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Mr Rogers, you really should shut your mouth/fingers and read carefully before you act. I have kindly refrained from engaging you verbaly but now I will.

Do you even know what Thintelligence is? Why don't you read Billy's Old Blood before you do anything? You are behaving just like a bad paleontologist; one who exibits over-certaintity with a dirth of facts. Please improve.
from Levine, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Huh? Are you refering to Old Blood?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Well Mr Rogers, obviously the scientists are wrong. A chevon bone on a female skull? What a mix up. Anyway, did they mention if they fond a complete chervon? Sue's skeleton was artulicated you know, meaning if they found a chervon bone like five meters away from sue, it's unlikely to be hers?

Did you do extra checking? Could you post the article here? Because I was surfing the latest news about Sue and they said they weren't sure about what gender sue was, but assumed she was female. They also mentioned something about withdrawing eariler statements about Sue being male. Sue was assumed to be male at first, but now we are not sure.

But one thing's for sure. Female Tyrannosaurus are bigger. So if Sue was a female, Tyrannosaurus possibly grew to Tyrannosaurus Imperator size.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

So what if he was the deadilest pound for pound? You can be the deadilest rat in the world, but the cat will still eat you! What people like is the deadilest dinosaur in the world, not deadilest pound for pound. Aka, T.rex. he was at least 3 times deadiler than Dryptosaurus. What the hell, he was the deadilest land based carnivore ever.

It's not too fair to conpair like this though. Dryptosaurus did not fill the same ecological niche as Tyrannosaurus, thus its not fair to do so. We can only validly compaire animals in the same ecological niche. It's a bit like trying to see weather Anatotitan was a more better predator than Tyrannosaurus.

Anyway, its not really a good idea to compair dinosaurs to mammals. It's good when we are trying to find ecological niches, but not physical charastics. The birds will do better. Female raptors are bigger than the male raptors! ha ah aha ahah ah ah
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

In the special edition of Star Wars: A New Hope, can small coelurosaurs be seen on the streets while Luke and Obi Wan are in the speeder? Possibly.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; November 16, 2000

Oh yeah, I forgot one more thing abouit Dryptosaurus,I didnt say the meanest pound for pound, I said the deadliest. Your talking about a thickly muscled, powerful predator capable of very fast sprints, jumps, and movements. Now about the weaponry, it doesnt mean anything if you have the most weaponry-billy-its the combination of power, weapons, speed and agility. I dont JUST look at the weapons like you may have, I look at the body also. Its like if you have a sword and another guy has a knife, if your slower and slower to recover than he is and he has alot of power in his arms to drive the knife, well youd be dead. Like I said, its not JUST the weapons, but the body also. Dryptosaurus has a very deadly combination, more deadly than velociraptor, eventhough hes not as "duked out". (1)He has thick, short arms with a large eagle like claw able to hold, rip and stab(2)large head with very large serrated teeth(3) and a thick, fast and quick body along with high leaping abilities. Now velociraptor had(1)stealth(2)large and long claws(3)and major agility on his side. You cant just count the weapons. Another thing Billy, why not be more humble and slower to jump up and try to teach someone something like they dont know it.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Oh yeah, Billy, I just wanted to say since your jumpin on whoever said Thintelligently, remember no matter how skilled the person is in their study or whatnot, we all make mistakes. Its so WONG!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Billy-All species of male and female cats ARE NOT the same size. That is VERY unusual in the cat family. The Males are Almost always bigger, because the male does the defense, and this thing about hunting dogs...woohoohoo! The males are bigger than the females, despite the rank issues. Now with hyenas thats true, and with birds of prey both sexes are normally THE SAME SIZE! Now I'll admit I was wrong about Sue and male skulls are easy to tell from the female skull. But the article said the scientist found and identified the bone as a chevron-thank you-and they can be told from other vertebrae, ESPECIALLY IN THESE DAYS. Now a animal with a violent, savage lifestyle that lives in social communities are usually blessed with a bigger female, and theyre are probably more reasons (but many scientist havent figured them out yet) for better chance of the young growing to adulthood and this effect is usual in hotblooded animals.
from Mr.Rogers, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000

Hey I'm back. I posted a few posts before on the great "Tyrannosaurus...Great Predator or Loathsome Scavenger?" Debate. It seems that everybody these days want to knock T.Rex off his throne. Actually, I wanted to add that Tyrannosaur was a powerful and awesome Hunter-Scavenger. Probally the ultimate big game hunter ever. I wanted to bash the scavenger camp, but found such overwhelmign evidence for predatory behaviour that I felt that I was beating a dead horse. Time to move on, Jack Horner's nice little thoery has been chopped, beatened and thrown back to him.

It seems like a lot of paleontologists trive on attention nowadays. They have to suggest a incredible idea that has so little evidence just to create media attention. But under careful study, their theories fall apart. Bakker was a good bone digger, but I doubt everybody takes everything he says seriously. The media is responsible for the creation of reckless paleontologists like Horner and Bakker. Examples? Remember Gigantonosaurus? When it first came out, everybody was going gaga over it. But much later when the dust settles, everybody finds all it was much ado about nothing, a primitive allosaur being bigger but actually weaker than the Tyrannosauids.

By the way, what is Thintelligence?
from Waha, age --------, ---------, --------, ----------; November 16, 2000

It had long been thought that Pachycephalosaurus' huge dome may have been used for ramming rivals during mating and dominance combat, for attracting mates, and as a last-ditch self-defense against predators (this idea was first presented by Ed Colbert in 1955).

Paleontologist Mark Goodwin of the University of California at Berkeley has analyzed many pachycephalosaur skulls (including those of Pachycephalosaurus), finding no evidence of healed scars. Also, under close analysis, the thick skull bone is not rigid and solid, but porous and fragile when put under extreme pressure. ``It's time to kill the myth ... It certainly wouldn't be in their own best interests to ram heads in a fight,'' said Goodwin ``They would have killed each other, and a couple of bowling balls would hardly make good targets.'' It is more likely that Pachycephalosaurus butted other animals sides (flank-butting), rather than their heads. This would inflict damage on the other animal and not injure the Pachycephalosaurus.

The end is near for all unbalanced Pachycephalosaurus fans.
from Wahha, age ------, --------, -----------, ----------; November 16, 2000

Trying new format, does it work?
How do I get a spacing at the begining of my paragraph?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; November 16, 2000